Cat 1/2/3 First Lap
Cat 4 – crash and flat in the first lap, long run to the pit, thanks SRAM for helping me avoid a DNF
And I thought I was the sensible one. Thanks for setting me sttihgar.
Men’s Cat 4
Men’s Cat 4/5
Wow – all great dialog put into perspective by Nathan and Rob. This topic comes up every year, and the answer always goes back to cat’n up, or doubling up, but Nathan nailed it with the issues getting the fields together on time. That is the single, easiest thing that riders can do to keep the event on schedule!
Finally – if you are concerned about having enough “points” to get granted an upgrade, trust me – if you are fast enough and ask – your wish will be granted!
In 2009 this venue was my first CX race ever – and my last as a Cat 4. I asked for and was granted an upgrade the very next day.
Yeah that’s what I’m talking about bancy-bi-e work!
Many thanks to Rob and his crew for setting up one of the best Euro cross race on the schedule. Also thanks to all the USA cycling officials and volunteers. This is the best Cross series in the Midwest and we are thankful to have such great races to attend. I always hear from the cycling industry world that CCC has one of the best cup series in the U.S.
Here is the Masters 35+ back of the pack
Now I know who the brainy one is, I’ll keep looknig for your posts.
Thank you to Rob Curtis (and his crew). They gave us a day that was chock full of racing, spectating and good natured heckling. Photos from the day can be found here:
Nathan and Morleigh
Thanks for putting on a great and challenging race! Came all the way from Iowa… Not disappointed 🙂
Great challenging course thanks Psimet for putting this race together, and thanks SRAM for the needed support. Masters 55 plus
Did some random snapping, mostly Women’s Cat 4 and Men’s 3:
Thrilled to get back out here and shoot after a long absence!
Pics from the M1/2/3 race are posted here: http://tippingpointphotography.zenfolio.com/ccc2015woodstock
Information about purchasing prints and/or digital files is in the album description. Please #shoplocal.
I have additional pics from everything except the 35+ and the Cat 3 race. I’ll post those links when they’re ready.
Tipping Point Photography
More photos posted!
I only had a handful of shots from the M4s so I combined them into an album with the M4/5s:
And the W4s/Juniors race is here:
Your answer lifts the inlcetiglnee of the debate.
Here are some photos from the day!
Really short races for basically everyone in 4s and 4/5s (like 21 minutes), except for the guys at the very back. Isn’t that the opposite of how its suppose to work? Shouldn’t the guys who have earned it get a full 30 minutes of racing and slower riders get (mercifully) pulled? I have full faith in the CCC folks that there is a good reason for this (there is absolutely no sarcasm intended; I think we have one of the best ‘cross series in the entire country), but I have no idea what that reason would be. Seems like a pretty raw deal all around for the 4s and 4/5s. Anyone know what the thinking is there?
Not speaking from the experience of someone who has actually organized a race, but take a look at the lap times. Most people outside the top ~25 in the 4s race alone were pushing 8 minutes per lap, with some riders closer to 9. In this situation as the race director, you’re going to either end up pissing off close to half the field for getting pulled on the last lap, or pissing off the top 20 riders who could have probably fit one more lap in. I think in the 4s and the 4/5s, the director’s decision was smart to cut the race and avoid having to pull a substantial amount of people. This also avoids delaying the 4/5s start even more than it usually is, since some riders who avoid getting pulled may end finishing 4-5 minutes past the 30 minute limit. Overall I recognize it’s a tough decision that’s going to upset people either way, so I tend to side with the organizer whatever their decision may be.
I could have gone either way. As somebody starting in the back half, I really would have liked another lap to keep working up. It’s a bit of driving for a <25 minute race too. However, we were running a little behind and pushing back the 4/5 race and making it 4 laps would have involved finishing without very much light. I think it was the right decision in the end.
The CCC is a great series, but some reflection on how races are scheduled and run needs to be performed- and adjustments made as necessary. Eliminate the CAT 4 race to ensure an “as promised” race length? Combine some of the fields that regularly only see 20-30 racers? Set a max distance for a race venue from the heart of Chicago? Set proper expectations with CAT 4 and 5 racers by telling them they may only get to race for 20 mins in advance of the race. Thanks for keeping cup CCC great.
While I can understand that argument, I do feel like this is a *race* series, not a fondo. So, if somebody *has* to get screwed it should be the guys who can’t race fast enough not to get pulled. I’m not going to bother to do the math, but 2.5 hours of driving round trip for 20 minutes of racing (not to mention the expenses, time away from families, etc.) is probably not a great ratio.
They are probably trying to keep the races short because it gets dark so damn early now… You could always do 2 classes…
Speaking of the 4/5 race… as I was leaving I saw this buck running across the park with its head down at about 50mph. I thought it was going to charge the riders… anyone else saw it?
Each season the race schedule is tweaked and altered by smart people whose goal is to make the most riders possible happy. It’s imperfect and always will be, but it’s always being reconsidered. If you’re a Cat 4 and driving long distances to race, you really have no choice but to double up: it’s the best use of your time and money and insures you’ll get in quality race time. Will it be a full 60 minutes? Maybe. The Cat4/5 scheduling problem (and coincidentally the issue people have with heckling) has a very simple solution: Cat up. The 3s will start on time with smaller fields and the hecklers few. In both the Cat 4s and 4/5s yesterday, the top 10-15 riders were racing at a Cat 3 level.
Don’t forget also, the guys making the schedule made a brilliant decision that clearly is one of the reasons CCC is so great: they put the 4’s, 4/5s at the end of the day instead of the first race of the day, the way it is at many other races. Imagine for a moment if you were racing Woodstock and your whistle blew at 8:30. You’d have a field of 50 and not a single heckler.
So accept it for what it is, realize there are smart, dedicated people always trying to make it better, and Cat up as soon as you can.
>In both the Cat 4s and 4/5s yesterday, the top 10-15 riders were racing at a Cat 3 level.
Can I take that to the USAC or do I still need to collect 10 upgrade points? 🙂
Ben, I am no expert on the USAC rule book, but there were 10 of us Cat 4 ladies that moved up to 3s at the end of the 2013 season, with no threshold that we needed to reach for upgrade points. We had all been racing as 4s for at least one full season, if not two, and the only requirement for our upgrade was to have completed 10 races as a 4. Done! Not sure if it is the same for the dudes as it is for the ladies, though…
Maybe, I’m missing something, but Cross Results thinks you have 13 points? Is it miscalculating? Despite you being 5-3 against me, I’ll miss your video 😉
Greg – Wrong Ben S; I got my first ever upgrade points in Woodstock. But I should probably take a lesson and do what the other Ben S does and take some points off of the 4/5 race. I feel bad double-reging for the 4/5 when it fills up, but I guess there is no harm done when it doesn’t fill up mid-season. RIP my lungs.
That’s a crcaaerjckk answer to an interesting question
I agree with Ben. I get what you are saying but it’s a tough call either way. I’ve had experiences in the CCC where a 4s race ran long and I barely made it to staging for the 4/5s, and I was in the front of the pack in the 4s. I’ve also had an experience in the Wisconsin series where a 40 minute race actually ran 50 minutes which screwed up preriding options for other people racing. It’s not a perfect system but it’s difficult to judge how fast or slow people are going to ride on a certain course.
Let’s be honest if you’re mad about the distance driven that’s your problem, no one told you to sign up to race. Not sure why it’s not a big deal to race 30mins and make the drive but cut 5 mins off the race and all the sudden it’s a waste of time??
The CCC has made huge improvements, it sees hundreds of racers and fits everyone in the best they can.
Pulling the races closer to Chicago isn’t a solution. Most of the races are in the burbs, lots of racers live in the burbs, some races are in the city. Pulling them closer to the city makes it harder for some and further makes it harder for others. Not to mention the further from the city the better the terrain.
I’ve been racing this series 10 years and the improvements are huge. If you’re upset about racing short races then double up. Race the 4s and 4/5s or get there early and do masters. Or if you’re in the top of the cat 4s, stop sandbagging and upgrade. Just my opinion.
You have more useful info than the British had colonies prIeIW-W.
ugh, these comments are fucking weak.sadly, i’m adding my name to the list of people not coming back here. Not because Arthur’s boring: he’s not! Get’s better every day!But these comments: as insipid, illiterate, unimaginative and tedious as the posts th7sselvem.It̵e;s been a blast! L Region, you were always my favourite xx
One of the interesting things about running One2Go Event services means we can compare winning times for all races. This notion that the Category 4 race or the category 4/5 race were treated differently than other races during the day is simply not true. All races, with the exception of the Women’s 1/2/3 and the SS, ended up being shorter than their stated duration by upwards of 9 minutes.
My recommendation is that if you want to have a longer race, work together with the people in your field to spend less time staging. Look at preliminary staging every week. If you’re in the top 10, make sure your near the front. If you’re not in the top 10, move to the back. As racers get called in, move forward. Be there on time. Take your jacket off so the officials can see your number. Don’t make anyone call your name twice. Move quickly. Want to know where the extra lap of your race went? It went into getting your field into the starting grid.
Actual – goal = difference
35+ 36:02 – 40 = -3:58
45+ 36:52 – 40 = -3:08
SS and Jr Boys 35:17 – 35 = +0:17
Women’s 4 and Jr 26:08 – 30 = -3:52
Cat 3 35:54 – 45 = -9:06
Cat 123 Women 45:47 – 45 = +0:47
Cat 123 Men 59:07 – 60 = -0:57
Cat 4 21:11 – 30 = -8:49
Cat 4/5 22:03 – 30 = -7:57
Also, the last lap of the winner of the Cat 4 race was faster than the last lap of ANY of the Cat3s all but 12 in the Pro 1/2/3 field. Anyone who feels like they have earned a longer race…there are plenty of spots available earlier in the day. Maybe it’s time to send that email.
Leave it to the statistician to bring some clarity. Thanks, Nathan. P.S. I’m sitting in a biostats class right now. . .
Love it. And to expand on some of this for those that don’t realize it yet – Race Directors (myself being the race director yesterday) do not decide how long a race will be or how many laps you will or will not do. All of that is decided by the officials and that decision is not made lightly or without data of actual lap times.
As a promoter and race director all we can do is try to make the length of the course fall into that sweet spot that allows most races to end up falling close to their end time at a set number of laps. It’s really, really, really hard to do. Harder than I think you realize.
Here’s the thing though – those lap times for the 4’s / 4/5’s were way crazy fast. Way faster than they should have been. If you didn’t get to race long enough because you were in the front of the 4’s then you’re actually part of the issue in my opinion. You should upgrade. Without a doubt. There is plenty of room in the 3’s and you get to race longer as well.
If you’re having a hard time coming to grips with this or understanding the whole lap time and race length issue then please dig back through the archives. not more than 2 years ago my course was “too long” so racers in the 4’s only got 2 laps in and absolutely flipped out.
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Thanks to everyone who came out! We had a blast and everything went great for the first season running the course in reverse. General consensus is that people prefer it this direction. Problems of right side numbering and pit entrances being left handed instead of the preferred right handed will most likely be addressed for next year.
Being that Jingle Cross moved this year I hope to see you all out at Indian Lakes this weekend. Let’s keep this party rolling.
Forget the haters, your courses are the best. Previous years were excellent and the different direction (literal and metaphorical) this year was also excellent; always a balance of skill and strength. I look forward to it every year. Thank you!
Question for the experts: The 17 year old who won the Cat 4 race (my son) did his first cycling race in August, his first CX race in September and moved up to 4’s last week. Shouldn’t he be allowed to race 4’s for a few races before being forced to move up? And side note, I know 7,000+ people come from all over Chicago to run the Naperville Turkey Trot 5K, a vast majority finish between 15:00 and 30:00 and none of them complain about the amount of time they get to race for the $35 they pay for the run. A race is a race. Trust your race officials and race directors. These guys do an amazing job. I wish running events were this energized and fun. Kudos to the ChiCrossCup folks. And sorry to all those who had to ride around my various crashes in the 4/5 race yesterday.
See page 21 here: https://s3.amazonaws.com/USACWeb/forms/rules/2015_USAC_Rulebook_Chapter_1.pdf
Juniors are exempt from mandatory upgrade rules. That being said Paul is already flying and he should consider his goals and options going forward.
Reading this makes my deioiscns easier than taking candy from a baby.
I liked this. I think to be fair, there have been a good amount of upgrades out of the fours this year. I’ve been looking at this as I’ve had a bunch of finishes in the 6-15 range, and I want to upgrade. At 1-2 points every few races, I’m not looking good.
To those you can upgrade, consider it. Dominating the 4’s does create a bit of a logjam effect.
In fairness, I think only 2 riders had enough points prior to the event to upgrade from the Cat 4 race. As a percentage of target, that Cat 4 and 4/5 are quite a ways off. Not sure which fields could be feasibly combined beyond what has already been done. Only other option is an earlier start to the event which I’m not suggesting….
It does seem to me like the 4s needs deeper upgrade points; perhaps to 8th or 9th for fields over 75. Someone get USAC on the line.
If 15 seconds after the start, blood isn’t dripping out of your ears and you aren’t praying for a meteor to drop out of the sky and put you out of your misery, you aren’t going NEARLY hard enough. Ride well above your threshold until they tell you to stop. Should be good. If not, double up for another ten bones, or help tear down the course at the end of the day. 🙂
This has been happening all season and its really disappointing.
Masters 45+ ~ from the 3rd row going backwards
ommmaaar. Thanks for sharing the video. Got to see myself racing most of lap #2 in the Heritage kit.
Some more photos:
Stay infvematior, San Diego, yeah boy!
Woodstock CX Masters 45+, Part 1
Part 2 – [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT0IiMkSDBI&w=560&h=315%5D
Video – Women Cat 1-2-3 Barrier, first lap, heckle hill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7KB_9XX-8E&feature=youtu.be
Video – Women Cat 4/Jrs. finish line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de3SJEKGR0o&feature=youtu.be
Moar videos. Women Cat 4 & Jrs. – punchy uphill in the woods: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45WpLc4bqLI&feature=youtu.be
Single Speed/Jrs. – Uphill in the woods, lap 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpZOrFBTS2g&feature=youtu.be
Fun to spectate this race! Okay, a bunch of videos coming up. This one is the pre-ride before the Single Speed/Jr race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMfxORxpvM&feature=youtu.be
Lost a Silver Garmin 1st lap of Cat 4/5 on Belgian steps. Riders spotted it and spectators said someone picked it up. Please return if you found it. [email protected]
I found it while on lap 2. I’ll be going to both Saturdays/Sundays race this weekend. I could drop it off at registration on Saturday. Let me know!
Thanks! I’ll be at both Sat & Sun races also. Registration sounds like the easiest way to get it back to me. Maybe if you leave it marked with my name Charles Goldman the Reg folks can verify it’s me and return it.
Thanks again! (If you’re around in the afternoon maybe I can buy you a cool one at the bar! [email protected] )
Thanks everybody for the great race. Here’s about 100 pictures from the Masters 45/55; Singlespeed/Juniors; Women Cat 4/Juniors.
Huge applause for Robert Curtis & Psimet for building a creative & challenging course today. We all love “flow” on our trail rides & especially on our daily commutes, but Sunday mornings in autumn beg for something more dramatic. Well done & thanks!